Discuss Blog: Racism, Homophobia, and Equality http://communityfortress.com/tf2/blog/blog-racism-homophobia-and-equality.php Mon, 06 Sep 2010 19:34:50 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://communityfortress.com/tf2/blog/blog-racism-homophobia-and-equality.php#comment-485 to follow up on what Kuiper said... in Starcraft, it is a universal law that when a round ends you must say gg before you leave the match. in korea, if you don't do this then you're fined by KeSPA for bad manners. outside of korea, if you don't do this then you're punished by having your rating lowered for bad manners. the starcraft community looks very much down at bm (bad mannered) people -- saying that someone is bm when they feel they aren't breaking any of the social norms there is like saying their mother is a whore and is a hell of a way to start an e-fight. btw as a funny parallel to the conversation, have you ever heard of a Manner Pylon?: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Manner_Pylonthere's a comedy television show in korea on OGN where the host tries to teach a girl how to play starcraft. its an inside joke. also, this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhrYEMuJvD4. wanderrful Mon, 15 Feb 2010 22:01:13 +0100 http://communityfortress.com/tf2/blog/blog-racism-homophobia-and-equality.php#comment-484 As long as there are children on the internet, this thing won't go away. I like your optimism, but this will never go away on public games of all kinds, not just TF2... :\ Think the root of the problem is that most people think they can get away with being an abusive ass (and they can). Until that is changed (getting a warning from your ISP or something along those lines), few will bother to actually be nice. Orionche Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:51:02 +0100 http://communityfortress.com/tf2/blog/blog-racism-homophobia-and-equality.php#comment-483 I think that one of the biggest underlying problems with a lot of gaming communities isn't necessarily specific discrimination against members of certain races or sexual orientation, but just unsportsmanlike conduct in general. It's still quite possible to insult other players without using slurs, and even insults that are devoid of swear words can be hurtful. If you simply institute a policy that "the following words are banned from use," people will just come up with more inventive ways to insult each other. I think that the best thing that can be done is to encourage sportsmanlike conduct. If people are genuinely interested in playing a "good game," they'll be much less likely to spurt insults. If people are able to replace hateful insults with more constructive criticism and advice, the community will be more inviting for everyone, not just minority groups who are often the target of slurs. Kuiper Mon, 15 Feb 2010 15:49:03 +0100 http://communityfortress.com/tf2/blog/blog-racism-homophobia-and-equality.php#comment-482 Damnstraight! This is a message so mindblowingly basic that it shouldn't ever have to be said.. but regrettably, and terribly sadly it clearly does. I think it's incumbent upon all the gamers out there that aren't complete assholes to stamp this kinda shit out the second it rears its ugly head and if that means banning the offending assclowns from servers/leagues/forums then so be it. While it may be true that few people specifically site offensive language as a reason for not joining the competitive community they do often complain that competitive players are assholes... it occurs to me that these may in some small way be linked. The general atmosphere of comp tf2, and tf2 in general, is clearly harmed where racial/homophobic slurs are bandied about without restriction. If we don't actively seek to do something about it then we all look bad as a result. Can we do more than we currently are? I don't know.. but I think the importance of the issue bears it being raised here. Spaceboy Mon, 15 Feb 2010 12:46:18 +0100 http://communityfortress.com/tf2/blog/blog-racism-homophobia-and-equality.php#comment-481 While I agree that the article has good intentions, it seems too much of an inconsequential and unexplored discussion of bigotry in gamer culture that I can't help but feel like it won't do anything for the situation. "Don't use 'nigger' or 'faggot' because they're unaccommodating and hurtful; try to consider their point of view" is an elementary point that everyone's heard since they were children (oftentimes before they even knew what the words meant), and repeating it doesn't really accomplish anything. The article doesn't really show how widespread the problem is, what its actual effects are, the implications of putting language rules on TF2Lobby and pug games, nor what other things would need to be done to solve the problem. While I agree that something like "shut up nigger" is hurtful and excessive, I'd have to wonder exactly how much such language has deterred prospective players (I've never heard anyone say "I would join TF2 competitively, but I find their language too offensive"), and while I'm sure that such behavior has some sort of subjective impact on whether or not people get into the community, I think that's more a problem with the fps community as a whole than our small TF2 niche. Unless you really made inoffensiveness a central focus of the TF2 scene (which would require some rather in-depth problem-solving), I don't think it would raise recruits/retentions more than doing what we're already doing. All in all I'd say you have a good cause but need to delve into it much deeper or provide further suggestions and ideas if you want to make any meaningful points or changes. It's also surprising that you'd get through a whole article on this topic without mentioning Muscle Milk & Moolians. :S G-Mang Mon, 15 Feb 2010 12:44:35 +0100